New and improved one foreigner per heya rules

[Martin]

Today I read on the other forum the NSK decided that foreigners who get Japanese citizenship will still be considered foreigners when applying the one gaijin/heya rule. I.e. if Asasekiryu were to get Japanese citizenship tomorrow, Takasago still couldn't accept another Mongolian. It just gets better and better, huh. 

[Sebunshu]

Today I read on the other forum the NSK decided that foreigners who get Japanese citizenship will still be considered foreigners when applying the one gaijin/heya rule. I.e. if Asasekiryu were to get Japanese citizenship tomorrow, Takasago still couldn't accept another Mongolian. It just gets better and better, huh. 

I would think that could be subject to a law suit.  You are either a citizen or you aren't a citizen.  But then again, we have never known the Japanese to tolerate discrimination have we?

ztnm

Tschüss
Sebunshu

[Martin]

That's the whole problem right there. The discrimination doesn't really infringe any of the guy's rights. It only stops other furries from joining. And there's serious precedent for that (see initial rule).

[Cydrome]

NSK is running an entertainment business which depends on Japanese butts in the seats and Japanese eyeballs on the screens.  Gaijin dominance is costing them big bucks.

NSK a private corporation, not a government agency or a public service.  For NSK reducing/eliminating the domination of foreigners is sensible and, as a matter of law, just as legal as Hooters refusing to hire male waitresses because the decision is based on business needs rather than racial discrimination. 

[Sumo Fan in MT]

I am confused.  I'm pretty sure that I recently read something about NSK being overseen by the Ministry of Education or some such thing.  That would mean they can't be completely private. 

Otherwise, your point makes sense.  Doesn't matter that we foreigners perceive to be fair, it's not our call.

[Sebunshu]

I am confused.  I'm pretty sure that I recently read something about NSK being overseen by the Ministry of Education or some such thing.  That would mean they can't be completely private. 

Otherwise, your point makes sense.  Doesn't matter that we foreigners perceive to be fair, it's not our call.

The problem with this logic is that the naturalized citizen is no longer a foreigner. They are now a Japanese citizen, with all of the rights and privileges inherent with that title and position.  Therefore, they should be treated as such.  This has nothing to do with the rights of an organization trying to prevent the foreigners from taking over the sport.  The naturalized citizen should now tick the ledger as a Japanese citizen, no longer a foreigner.  Therein lies the grounds for a potential law suit.  Of course none of the oyakata would dare challenge such a ruling or else face potential ostracization or expulsion from NSK.  I was just pointing out the thin ice they are treading on here.

ztnm

Tschüss
Sebunshu

[ronnie]

I've got to say that I don't quite understand the rationale behind this new ruling.
From what I can see, sumo is really struggling to attract Japanese youths to sign up. Now whether that's because of the tough lifestyle for new entrants, ( I can't imagine that Japanese kids are so much different from their western counterparts, ie; live as a slave for however long it takes, and have no freedom of choice.), or if other sports such as baseball or golf, for instance, appear as much more appealing. I know if I had the choice, I wouldn't go for the sumo pick. Up at the crack of dawn, doing all the chores, then the fun part of being whacked about, ( if not outright killed ) then being last to getting to eat what's left of the meal I just made.

The other way I see this, is that the Kyokai have tired of foreign dominance of their sport, and are partially cutting the pipeline. I would shudder with horror if this was the case. Sumo won't get better without the best wrestlers available, it would be quite the reverse. This scenario would be like waving the white flag and condemning the sport to stagnation.

All the above are purely just my POV, 'cause I really can't understand the reasoning behind it.

ronnie

[nomadwolf]

The problem with this logic is that the naturalized citizen is no longer a foreigner. They are now a Japanese citizen, with all of the rights and privileges inherent with that title and position.  Therefore, they should be treated as such.  ...  The naturalized citizen should now tick the ledger as a Japanese citizen, no longer a foreigner.  Therein lies the grounds for a potential law suit.

Eh, they could just be ticked as "Citizen (former foreigner)" and base the rules from that

[Henhito]

I am confused.  I'm pretty sure that I recently read something about NSK being overseen by the Ministry of Education or some such thing.  That would mean they can't be completely private. 

Otherwise, your point makes sense.  Doesn't matter that we foreigners perceive to be fair, it's not our call.

The NSK is under the jurisdiction  of the Japanese Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology. So it´s not a completely private corporation. I don´t know the exact term for such an institution, it could be statutory corporation, or something like that.
So Sebunshu could be right, it should be possible to sue the NSK for this rule, although I doubt this will happen. Who would have the cojones, the nerves and the money to dare this?
In European soccer, there was a case of some similarity, the Jean-Marc Bosman case. Bosman sued his employer for not letting him move to another soccer club. The judgemnet clearly showed that the tranfer rules of the professional European soccer leagues violated the European Labour Law. Bosman, who won his lawsuit, had to end his career soon after, because he found no further employer.
For professional sumotori there is just one employer.   

About the intention of this rule I can only speculate. Is this a "lex Asashoryu"? Somekind of overreaction to prevent futher troubles with gaijin? A single foreign rikishi per heya would have more pressure to conform, would be better manageable or educable. Or do they want to produce the next Japanese Yokozuna that way?
Whatever it is, one thing´s for sure: the quality of Ozumo will decrease in the next years.

To me all this looks like the typical acting of an inbreeding circle. Instead of solving the basic problems of the sport, which is to get talented Japanese youngsters into it (ronnie already pointed that out), they botch at the symptoms.

[Cydrome]

>>The NSK is under the jurisdiction  of the Japanese Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology.<<

I believe that this statement is true only in the sense that an industrial corporation (like Toyota) is "under the jurisdiction" of MITI.  In this type of relationship, the government agency does not make absolute rules, it "gives guidance" to companies by class (like automobile manufacturers) on issues of national concern.  An individual company's response to any dictum is voluntary (although the guidance is rarely, if ever, totally ignored).

[Henhito]

You may believe this, but it´s wrong.
The NSK is a non-profit organization (or better say: should be) with a public task under governmental control, it´s goal is to foster sumo as the national sport of Japan and to educate youngsters in the traditions and etiquette of the sport and the country.
So it can´t be directly compared with Toyota, which is (or currently better say:  should be) a private profit-oriented organization.
But maybe someone able to read Japanese could make a research to clear the exact status of the NSK? My writing is just based on a book.

[matagidan]

This is a step backwards. I am disappointed.

[Biru]

Probably they are afraid of the following scenario: They open sumo to all foreign competitors, but the interest abroad doesn't increase. At the same time, the Japanese audience turns away, as they want a Japanese yokozuna, but 70 per cent of all top-rikishi are suddenly from abroad. This, in turn, will hit the sumo association severely on the financial end.

They may end up with no audience, no young Japanese rikishi entering sumo, no money, and drug-taking, guts-posing foreigners taking over the stables, disregarding the cultural roots of sumo.

Give it a 1 percent chance that this may happen, and the board members will stand united in their vote.

[Kovir Wyttcliff Gerra]

Yes, the thing is, I in Asashoryu case was willingly wanting the sumo association to let him go away with it and stay in the sport. (and i am sure i was not the only one)

But this inevitable leads to the western type of thinking penetration to the sacred sumo rituals and rules, way of life. it hampers it, twists it and turns it into something different.

As long as the japanese folk does not want to tolerate the excesses, I believe that sumo association should not tolerate them either.

Does train need rails to move further? So should all rikishi, no matter from what culture they recruited, stick with the traditional way of sumo. Period.

[Cydrome]

>>Does train need rails to move further?<<

Haven't I read this one in Zen Flesh, Zen Bones? 

::ding::